Posts by IT Support

54

What "religion" type do you follow?

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

hi, i'm on my "spiritual search so i want to see what "religion"/non religion you choose and why.

for example: are you christian?

pagan?

IT Support

I'm on this Agnosticism / Atheism mailing list and was reading about this the other day:

Once it is understood that atheism is merely the absence of belief in any gods, it becomes evident that agnosticism is not, as many assume, a ?third way? between atheism and theism. The presence of a belief in a god and the absence of a belief in a god exhaust all of the possibilities. Agnosticism is not about belief in god but about knowledge ? it was coined originally to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not.

Thus, it is clear that agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism.

http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/atheism.htm

So I guess that makes me an agnostic atheist.

26

Ah! Thursday! Meeting Night!

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

after i left the jws and moved out, it was weird having all these evenings to myself.

i think sunday was the easiest day to get used to without meetings.

it just made my weekend a bit longer.

IT Support

Blondie,

The elders who had parts rarely prepared,

What do you mean? I'd spend at least an hour preparing while hurtling along the motorway at 70mph (ok, maybe 80mph) every Thursday after work.

It's a good thing the WTS provides the questions for the parts now.

Do you mean they now put questions in the km?

Otherwise it would be, "what is God's name" "who is his son", etc.

I hated that, when speakers asked such stupid questions.

COs were the main culprits. My kids used to sink lower in their seats so he wouldn't see them and drop on them. "Alright," he'd say, not getting any offers from the kids, "any of the adults then!"

33

What is the Real Financial Cost of a Circuit Assembly?

by FairMind in

jw
friends

my congregation along with about thirty others attends circuit assemblies at a facility that is owned by the organization (a converted school).

this building also has a section that serves as a kh for three local congregations.

i have noticed that when the financial reports are read at the assemblies that the expense (which is not detailed) is always around $4,000.

IT Support

Where does the rest of the expense lie?

There are the CO and DO expenses.

Then there are 'Resolutions.' When the elders get together for the circuit elders meeting, one of the chief purposes is to vote on the Resolutions.

These may be for donations to WT and to the local district convention organisation.
They may also include expenses for the CO's accommodation, vehicle, insurance, stationery, etc.
There may be resolutions to pay for replacing circuit equipment (like PA equipment--unless the circuit uses an assembly hall, in which case it should be included in the 'per capita' rental charged to the circuit by the hall committee), etc.

At the circuit elders meeting, one of the elders gets up and rattles off the list of resolutions then asks if anyone has any questions. It's most unusual if anyone has. Then everyone is asked to indicate their agreement by raising their hands. Everyone does. Any disagree? No one.

However, the hall rental is usually always the largest cost of a circuit assembly. Assembly halls usually charge significantly more than secular auditoriums.

41

Physics Challenge! Explain "entangled particles" to me

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey all,.

i'm totally fascinated by the concept of entangled particles.

as i understand it, you take a proton (or something tiny like that), split it apart, but don't observe the resulting particles.

IT Support

I found this site well written (even though I still got lost after a few minutes!):

http://particleadventure.org/particleadventure/

14

The Apprentice - Watchtower version

by catchthis in

jw
friends

being a fan of the tv show the apprentice, i love to "play along" to see if my ideas would work with what the teams are tasked to accomplish.

many times, their ideas are totally off.

other times, the executives they are tasked with providing a presentation to feel that they had 'hit a home run.

IT Support

Make the volunteers at bethel buy their own food

Be more radical

Get them to do secular work part time like pioneers to support themselves financially, but then work in Bethel instead of knocking doors.

The advantages are:

They find and pay for their own accommodation and food.
WT can sell all the expensive accommodation buildings.
All the Home staff can be sacked, as they'll no longer be any need for cooks, waiters, laundry, hairdressers, etc.
All the real estate previously used for Home departments can be sold / redeployed.

As an even more radical alternative, WT can keep their expensive accommodation buildings, but rent them out to Bethelites at "the going rate"...

(Edited to add)

There's no reason why this principle can't be extended to travelling overseers, special pioneers and missionaries. Just think of all the lovely money that could be saved!!

22

well I'm online for one whole week

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

.

my two daughters have gone to jamaica for the wedding of the youngest one.. and i'm at the oldest one's house watching the two kids.. and i have internet access full time!!!.

yippee

IT Support

Hi Lady Lee, welcome back.

You've been missed.

22

Who couldn't get Reinstated - Randy Waters, Ray Franz, Alan F, or Simon =)

by GetBusyLiving in

jw
friends

.

who do you think would take the longest to get reinstated?

gbl

IT Support

Simon,

I'm not Da'd either although they announced it to the cong (lying bastards)

It sounds like they disassociated you.

It's a cynical, deceitful practice of the WT, where they say that, by your actions, you have disassociated yourself. It allows the smooth PR-types to ~~lie~~ say, e.g. that no JWs are disfellowshipped for voting, taking blood, joining the military or leaving the cult, and thus avoid unwanted inquiries from government agencies.

Only JWs realise there's no difference between disassociation and disfellowshipping...

40

Governing Body talk in Holland - GB decisions are Jehovah's decisions

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

it seems that few are aware of it, but the whole talk here is posted.. http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/viewtopic.php?t=2337&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=45.

seems like holland is having problems with jw authority.. thought i'd paste a few comments from the board before pasting the talk, so you can get an idea of what is happening.... --------------------------.

thanks for the update from holland.

IT Support

Anyone know who this McKenzie guy is, anyway?

36

NOT ALLOWED TO RAPE....BUT

by tijkmo in

when i was df i decided to use the time wisely and read the insight books which is how i came across this

the armies of pagan nations often raped the women of conquered cities, but not so the victorious soldiers of israel.

nor were they permitted for a month to marry a captive woman.

IT Support

Euphemism,

in the other cases in Deuteronomy that I cited,

To recap, you quoted the following verses:

Deu 22:23,24 "In case there happened to be a virgin girl engaged to a man, and a man actually found her in the city and lay down with her, YOU must also bring them both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die, the girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city, and the man for the reason that he humiliated the wife of his fellowman. So you must clear away what is evil from your midst.

Deu 22:28,29 "In case a man finds a girl, a virgin who has not been engaged, and he actually seizes her and lies down with her, and they have been found out, the man who lay down with her must also give the girl?s father fifty silver shekels, and she will become his wife due to the fact that he humiliated her. He will not be allowed to divorce her all his days.

You then stated:

where the context makes clear that sex is being referred to, the KJV still translates the word as 'humbled'; so I wouldn't take their translation as a strong indicator.

As you say, in both instances the context clearly indicates that the 'humiliation' referred to is sex (even if not necessarily rape). The first verse (referring to adultery) specifically says that the man "lay down with her." The second verse (possibly fornication or rape) again very specifically says the man "lies down with her."

Whereas no such similar specific wording appears in Deuteronomy 21:14:

And it must occur that if you have found no delight in her, you must then send her away, agreeably to her own soul; but you must by no means sell her for money. You must not deal tyrannically with her after you have humiliated her.

Interestingly, in Deuteronomy 22:23, 24, the transliteration is "abased" but with a Strong's Concordance number of 6030 (also 'anah) which is defined as:

give account, ... (cause to, give) answer, ... cry, hear, Leannoth, lift up, say, X scholar, (give a) shout, sing (together by course), speak, testify, utter, (bear) witness.

I'm no scholar, so I'm probably missing something significant here. But, for the life of me, I can't see any connection between the definition and it's use in the verse. Verses 28 and 29 again use 6031.

If I get a chance to look up any scholarship on this verse, I'll post it here.

Thanks, that would be interesting.

22

My first anti-witness

by cheeseman in

jw
friends

the bell went this morning at 10am.

wtf is that?

lo and behold...two jw's at the door!!!.

IT Support

Cheeseman,

First, welcome to JWD. I hadn't noticed another fellow Scot on board! Are you back in Perth, or still in England?

This is the text of the tract you were given:

*** T-13 pp. 2-6 Why You Can Trust the Bible ***

Why You Can Trust the Bible

Some people say the Bible is unreliable, and their views have gained wide acceptance. Thus many today dismiss what the Bible says as untrustworthy.

On the other hand, what Jesus Christ said in prayer to God promotes trust: "Your word is truth." And the Bible itself claims to be inspired by God.?John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16.

What do you think about this? Is there sound basis for trusting the Bible? Or is there really evidence that the Bible is unreliable, that it contradicts itself and is inconsistent?

Does It Contradict Itself?

While some may claim the Bible contradicts itself, has anyone ever shown you an actual example? We have never seen one that could withstand scrutiny. True, there may appear to be discrepancies in certain Bible accounts. But the problem usually is lack of knowledge regarding details and circumstances of the times.

For example, some persons will draw attention to what they consider a discrepancy in the Bible, asking: ?Where did Cain get his wife?? The assumption is that Cain and Abel were the only children of Adam and Eve. But the assumption is based on a misunderstanding of what the Bible says. The Bible explains that Adam "became father to sons and daughters." (Genesis 5:4) Thus Cain married one of his sisters or possibly a niece.

Often critics are just looking for contradictions and so may declare: ?The Bible writer Matthew says that an army officer came to ask Jesus a favor, while Luke says that representatives were sent to ask. Which one is correct?? (Matthew 8:5, 6; Luke 7:2, 3) But is this really a contradiction?

When the activity or work of people is credited to the one who is actually responsible for it, a reasonable person does not claim a discrepancy. For example, do you consider a report to be in error that says a mayor built a road even though the actual building of the road was done by his engineers and laborers? Of course not! Similarly, it is not inconsistent for Matthew to say that the army officer made a request of Jesus but, as Luke writes, that such a request was made through certain representatives.

As more details are known, apparent discrepancies in the Bible disappear. History and Science
The historical accuracy of the Bible was once widely doubted. Critics, for example, questioned the existence of such Bible characters as King Sargon of Assyria, Belshazzar of Babylon, and the Roman governor Pontius Pilate. But recent discoveries have verified one Bible account after another. Thus historian Moshe Pearlman wrote: "Suddenly, sceptics who had doubted the authenticity even of the historical parts of the Old Testament began to revise their views."

If we are to trust the Bible, it must also be accurate in matters of science. Is it? Not long ago scientists, in contradiction of the Bible, asserted that the universe had no beginning. However, astronomer Robert Jastrow recently pointed to newer information that refutes this, explaining: "Now we see how the astronomical evidence leads to a biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same."?Genesis 1:1.

Men have also changed their views relative to the shape of the earth. "Voyages of discovery," explains The World Book Encyclopedia, "showed that the world was round, not flat as most people had believed." But the Bible was correct all along! More than 2,000 years before those voyages, the Bible said at Isaiah 40:22: "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth," or as other translations say, "the globe of the earth" (Douay), "the round earth." (Moffatt)

Thus the more humans learn, the greater the evidence is that the Bible can be trusted. A former director of the British Museum, Sir Frederic Kenyon, wrote: "The results already achieved confirm what faith would suggest, that the Bible can do nothing but gain from an increase of knowledge." Foretelling the Future
But can we really trust the Bible?s forecasts for the future, including its promises of a ?righteous new heavens and new earth?? (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:3, 4) Well, what has been the Bible?s record of reliability in the past? Time and time again prophecies given even hundreds of years in advance have been fulfilled in exact detail!

For example, the Bible foretold the overthrow of mighty Babylon nearly 200 years before it happened. In fact, the Medes, who became aligned with the Persians, were named as the conquerors. And although Cyrus, the Persian king, had not even been born as yet, the Bible foretold that he would be prominent in the conquest. It said that Babylon?s protecting waters, the river Euphrates, "must be dried up," and that "the gates [of Babylon] will not be shut."?Jeremiah 50:38; Isaiah 13:17-19; 44:27?45:1.

These specific details were fulfilled, as the historian Herodotus reported. Further, the Bible foretold that Babylon would eventually become uninhabited ruins. And that is just what happened. Today Babylon is a desolate heap of mounds. (Isaiah 13:20-22; Jeremiah 51:37, 41-43) And the Bible is full of other prophecies that have had dramatic fulfillment.

What then does the Bible foretell concerning the present world?s system of things? It says: "The final age of this world is to be a time of troubles. Men will love nothing but money and self; they will be arrogant, boastful, and abusive; with no respect for parents, no gratitude, no piety, no natural affection . . . They will be men who put pleasure in the place of God, men who preserve the outward form of religion, but are a standing denial of its reality."?2 Timothy 3:1-5, The New English Bible.Surely, we are seeing the fulfillment of this now! But the Bible also foretells for "the final age of this world" these things: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages." In addition, "there will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another pestilences."?Matthew 24:7; Luke 21:11.

Indeed, Bible prophecies are undergoing fulfillment today! Well, then, what about yet-to-be-fulfilled promises, such as: "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it," and, "They will have to beat their swords into plowshares . . . , neither will they learn war anymore"??Psalm 37:29; Isaiah 2:4.

?That?s just too good to be true,? some may say. But really, there is no reason for us to doubt anything that our Creator promises. His Word can be trusted! (Titus 1:2) By examining the evidence further, you will become ever more convinced of this.

Unless otherwise indicated, all Bible quotations are from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. [Blurb on page 4]

"The results already achieved confirm what faith would suggest, that the Bible can do nothing but gain from an increase of knowledge"